Discernment and Division
I'm tired this morning from a lack of sleep. I laid awake for hours last night, thinking about an email I received from someone who does not understand why I write about my spiritual past on my blog as I do. This person considers my writing to be a public assassination of my former church. They do not see it as "Christian" behavior. They view it as tearing down others. I don't simply reject those criticisms. I laid awake for hours, taking them to heart, examining my heart.
I responded before I went to bed and then wrote a little bit more around 4:00 AM because so many thoughts were swirling around in my head. I am going to keep the details of the email and the identity of the person confidential because this person said they were writing to me as a friend and as someone who loves me. I have no desire to question the sincerity of those statements. I hope this person will not feel violated by my writing vaguely about this because it is very heavy on my mind this morning. I am not indifferent to the pain of others; I never have been.
For five years, I have questioned myself; my heart and my motives. I've prayed many prayers asking God to show me if I'm wrong to share these things. It has been said that those of us who have left should have gone away quietly. I am willing to look at myself honestly and face the truth about myself. Am I bitter? Am I out to hurt people? No, I don't think so. I can't see that in my heart if it's there. But I know God sees things in my heart that I can't. And I will continue to ask Him to reveal my heart to me more fully.
If you are reading this and you are someone I have hurt, please forgive me. I don't want to hurt you. I share my testimony and my journey on my blog. I write to process things I have struggled with and sometimes continue to struggle with. I have friends who share some of these struggles who have told me my blog has been a help to them spiritually. I'm not writing from a desire to destroy people. I'm writing about my search for more truth and the things God is showing me. I'm often writing in the hope of provoking deeper thought on certain subjects such as spiritual deception. My past is often the best illustration I can draw from. This is the life I have lived.
I was reading this morning a little bit from a new book I just got, "The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment." And I read the following:
"...discernment is a skill that does not tend to make us popular, for, as we will soon see, it requires us to make clear and unwavering distinctions between what is good and what is evil. The words of Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37 warn about the consequences of those who follow him:
Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
With discernment comes division. A person who seeks to be discerning must be willing to suffer the effects of this division. It will divide not only believer from unbeliever, but it may even divide a discerning believer from one who is undiscerning..."
I have offended some in private conversations about the gospel of personal fulfillment. I am sure I have been offensive to certain other friends of mine when I have raised questions about praying to Mary. I was offensive to a friend (of another faith) when I tried to tell her that Jesus was her Savior as well as mine. I hate being an offense. But can the offense be the barometer for right and wrong? Clearly it cannot because Jesus offends and the cross offends.
This is a subject that causes me a lot of inner conflict. I know I am an offense to some and, to others, I guess I am just impossible to understand. I will pray about this and ask God to more completely deliver me from needing to reflect on my past. Perhaps I can express my thoughts without specifically referring to details. It's hard to blot out 43 of your 48 years. There have been many times I have wished it could be done with just one simple prayer. Nobody wishes I could be completely free from the past more than me. I truly am sorry if I have hurt you. That is never my objective. I am just a very straightforward communicator. Please forgive me.
I responded before I went to bed and then wrote a little bit more around 4:00 AM because so many thoughts were swirling around in my head. I am going to keep the details of the email and the identity of the person confidential because this person said they were writing to me as a friend and as someone who loves me. I have no desire to question the sincerity of those statements. I hope this person will not feel violated by my writing vaguely about this because it is very heavy on my mind this morning. I am not indifferent to the pain of others; I never have been.
For five years, I have questioned myself; my heart and my motives. I've prayed many prayers asking God to show me if I'm wrong to share these things. It has been said that those of us who have left should have gone away quietly. I am willing to look at myself honestly and face the truth about myself. Am I bitter? Am I out to hurt people? No, I don't think so. I can't see that in my heart if it's there. But I know God sees things in my heart that I can't. And I will continue to ask Him to reveal my heart to me more fully.
If you are reading this and you are someone I have hurt, please forgive me. I don't want to hurt you. I share my testimony and my journey on my blog. I write to process things I have struggled with and sometimes continue to struggle with. I have friends who share some of these struggles who have told me my blog has been a help to them spiritually. I'm not writing from a desire to destroy people. I'm writing about my search for more truth and the things God is showing me. I'm often writing in the hope of provoking deeper thought on certain subjects such as spiritual deception. My past is often the best illustration I can draw from. This is the life I have lived.
I was reading this morning a little bit from a new book I just got, "The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment." And I read the following:
"...discernment is a skill that does not tend to make us popular, for, as we will soon see, it requires us to make clear and unwavering distinctions between what is good and what is evil. The words of Jesus in Matthew 10:34-37 warn about the consequences of those who follow him:
Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
With discernment comes division. A person who seeks to be discerning must be willing to suffer the effects of this division. It will divide not only believer from unbeliever, but it may even divide a discerning believer from one who is undiscerning..."
I have offended some in private conversations about the gospel of personal fulfillment. I am sure I have been offensive to certain other friends of mine when I have raised questions about praying to Mary. I was offensive to a friend (of another faith) when I tried to tell her that Jesus was her Savior as well as mine. I hate being an offense. But can the offense be the barometer for right and wrong? Clearly it cannot because Jesus offends and the cross offends.
This is a subject that causes me a lot of inner conflict. I know I am an offense to some and, to others, I guess I am just impossible to understand. I will pray about this and ask God to more completely deliver me from needing to reflect on my past. Perhaps I can express my thoughts without specifically referring to details. It's hard to blot out 43 of your 48 years. There have been many times I have wished it could be done with just one simple prayer. Nobody wishes I could be completely free from the past more than me. I truly am sorry if I have hurt you. That is never my objective. I am just a very straightforward communicator. Please forgive me.
Comments
yet, they (for the most part -there have been some exceptions) have not had the integrity to admit we (cgt and those who have left) worship different lords.
there has been a shift there to be more inclusive. they were FAR less dangerous when they were exclusive. they have adapted terminology and worship styles yet maintained foundational beliefs. satan is always more dangerous when appearing as an angel of light.
paul is so clear in galatians to tell the galatians they are preaching another gospel. and he tells them they are accursed. do you think he tells them that to destroy them? absolutely not. the letter is written in hopes of their repenting and turning to the true gospel. if paul had followed the "why can't you just walk away quietly," if the prophets and apostles had just walked away quietly after every doctrinal disagreement, the bible would be a lot shorter book. division is part of the equation when it comes to christianity. in genesis 3 the first presentation of the gospel includes guaranteed enmity. it is naive to assume it is unchristian to point out doctrinal failings and repeated injustices.
one of the most intriguing comments i have heard about our leaving is "why can't they just leave quietly." the answer is because we care. there is no greater hate than indifference. if i could leave quietly when i believe a majority of the people there are lost would be impossible if i loved them.
in actuality, the suggestion that we should just walk away quietly coupled with the lack of any attempt at contact (again there are a couple exceptions)has shown me the indifference felt toward me. in a sense, we have been told to just disappear. please tell me which is more painful.
it would be inconceivable to me to have just walked away while keeping my mouth shut. no matter how the things i said might be taken.
one last point. the use of the term assassination is a clue to how misunderstood you are. you have spoken out about injustice and false doctrine. your posts (or at least what i have read of them) have only included facts about a groups beliefs. am i assassinating the republican party to state they want low taxes and a strong national defense? no, i'm writing about what they believe. to write that cgt teaches you have to speak in tongues to be born again isn't assassination. it's truth. i don't understand why the group gets so sensitive when people tell others about their doctrine.
Because, for whatever reason, they're embarrassed by their doctrine. If they weren't, they wouldn't be hiding it behind a smoke screen but would be proclaiming it from the rooftoops. If it is "The Truth," then there's nothing to be embarrassed by. Yet, when you (Shari) point out their doctrine, they cry foul. I find that terribly interesting and more than telling.
Don't worry about the criticism Shari. They can't take your past away from you any more than you can take theirs from them. We both had to endure years and years of testimonies in that place that, using your emailing "friend's" definition of the word, assassinated other God-fearing and Gospel-believe Christians. Those people that are now crying foul because you share your testimony were the one's that soured my opinion of other Christians and caused me to look at them with pity for being so lost. This, my dear friend, is the defintion of hypocrisy. Although it isn't a good idea to set out to intentionally hurt another person (and I know you too well to think that's ever your intent), I wouldn't be apologizing. As far as I can remember, you never spoke about an individual but the system. The reason they're offended is because they can't separate themselves from the system. Offend the system, offend them. You can't be responsible for that skewed sense of self and lack of boundaries. But who can blame them when they hear over the pulpit from leadership that "WE are under attack." Attack the church, attack the people. It's the only reality they've ever known. The leadership puts the burden of reproof that belongs squarely on their (his) shoulders off on the people and calls them up to arms. When you couple that with "if you're not for me then you're against me," those people have no choice but to see themselves and the system as one and the same - fighting for the same cause. It's all SO clear to me now - why wasn't it back then?!?!
We need to be in constant prayer for their deliverance. If God can deliver me, who is SO undeserving, He can deliver anyone! And I'll never stop praying for my former friends and family until the day I die and, if need be, confronting the heresy of their beliefs. After all, these matters are LIFE and DEATH. Not anything to take lightly.
I appreciate your heart for wanting to not offend. I have had to learn the hard way the past year or so that discernment is useless without love. I repent for wanting to be right more than wanting God to be glorified. I want to proclaim the truth in love to everyone, especially those who are in bondage.
This being said, the truth still needs to be spoken and if someone believes a different gospel than the one in the bible then why pretend it is not.
Danny pointed out several key differences that are not negotiable, someone is right and someone is wrong. Why should anyone bury their head in the sand so that someone will not be offended when they are in grave error? That would not be real love. Through the absolute grace of God and nothing within my own ability, I now believe in the Jesus of the bible who John describes:
John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 the same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
This is a completely different Jesus than the one that I was taught that was just a man. It also leads to a different gospel of faith plus something. Denying the deity of Christ lowers him and brings man up.
I have heard someone say that Jesus did not have any advantage over us. I didn't know we were competing with him? Why would the subject of Jesus having an advantage be spoken of to someone who believes in Christ's finished work on the Cross. That statement reveals that the person does not understand the gospel. Jesus hasd finished the work, all you can do his place your faith in HIM. If you do, even that is a gift from HIM.
The following quote is from Matt Slick: "If you put your faith in a Jesus that is not true, then your faith is useless. The power of faith does not rest in the act of believing, but in its object; the greatest faith in someone false is the same as no faith at all. Sincerity and false messiahs do not bridge the chasm of sin between God and man, only the Jesus of the Bible does that. Who then, is the true Jesus?"
The following is also from Matt Slick:
If Jesus is not God, then explain...
Why Thomas calls Jesus God in John 20:28? (Note, Thomas addresses Jesus specifically.)
Why does God call Jesus God in Heb. 1:8?
Why does John the apostle state that Jesus was the Word which was God that became flesh (John 1:1,14)?
Why is the phrase "Call upon the name of the LORD" (Hebrew, YHWH, i.e., Psalm 116:4) used only of God on the OT, and translated into the Greek in the LXX as "Call upon the name of the LORD (greek, KURIOS)," applied to Jesus in the NT (1 Cor. 1:2) if Jesus is not God in flesh?
Why does the apostle John say that Jesus was , "...calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God," (John 5:18)?
What did Jesus say that caused the Pharisees to claim that Jesus was making Himself out to be God.
How was it possible for Jesus to know all things (John 21:17)?
How can Jesus know all men (John 16:30)?
How can Jesus be everywhere (Matt. 28:20)?
How can Jesus, the Christ, dwell in you (Col. 1:27)?
How can Jesus be the exact representation of the Nature of God (Heb. 1:3)?
How can Jesus be eternal (Micah 5:1-2)?
How can Jesus be the one who gives eternal life (John 10:27-28)?
How can He be our only Lord and Master (Jude 4)?
How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) if there is only one God
in existence (Isaiah 44:6-8; 45:5)?
How can Jesus be called the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) and "God" also be called the Mighty God in Isaiah 10:21?
How was Jesus able to raise Himself from the dead (John 2:19-21)?
How can Jesus create all things (Col. 1:16-17), yet it is God who created all things by Himself (Isaiah 44:24)?
How can Jesus search the hearts and minds of the people (Rev. 2:23)?
Why was Jesus worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6) when He says to worship God only (Matt. 4:10)? (same Greek word for worship is used in each place.)
In the OT God was seen (Exodus 6:2-3; 24:9-11; Num. 12:6-9; Acts 7:2), yet no man can see God (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18). It was not the Father that was seen in the OT (John 6:46). Who, then were they seeing? See John 8:58.
Then why did Jesus claim the divine name, "I AM", for Himself in John 8:58? see Exodus 3:14.
Then why did Jesus say you must honor him even as you honor the Father (John 5:23)?
Then why is it that both the Father and the Son give life (John 5:21)?
Then why did Jesus bear witness of Himself (John 8:18; 14:6)?
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusdieforsins.htm
God bless,
Todd E.
I read something yesterday that was written by a man who now believes, as we were taught, that Jesus is a creation. He actually wrote that Jesus was no different from Adam. Wow. I couldn't believe it. Prior to believing this, he believed Oneness theology. But now he has seen in scripture that there is a separate Father. I rejoice that he see the Father. But it makes me sad that in order to see the Father, he has to now diminish the Son.
I will admit that it has been hard for my mind to completely grasp One God in three Persons. But we are talking about God! He is not limited to the ability of our finite minds. The Bible clearly calls the Father God, calls Jesus God and refers to the Holy Spirit as God, while telling us that there is One God. One of the most convincing scriptures for me was where Jesus called himself "I Am." How in the world can anyone get around that statement? A creation could not and would not say that.
Another key for me was God's nature of love. You cannot have love without relationship. If there was ever a time that the Father existed in complete isolation, then His nature could not be love because there was no one to receive His love. Some people believe that God created out of need for relationship. I at one time thought this way. But now I realize that God is not only eternal, He is complete within Himself. He had no need of relationship with me. He did not create humanity because He was lonely. That would mean He was incomplete. The God of the universe; incomplete without me? How absurd! He created humanity in order to share the love that had existed throughout eternity between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
In believing ANY of explanation of the Godhead, there are challenges to our finite minds. To believe that Jesus is not God, that He is just a man or a creation, requires disregarding all of the scriptures you listed or saying they do not mean what they say. I can no longer accept that explanation.
There are many biblical concepts my mind is unable to thoroughly grasp, but I believe them on faith. One is that God had no beginning. I have never experienced anything without a beginning. My mind can fathom an eternity of no end, but not an eternity without beginning. It is just beyond my scope of reasoning. But I still believe the Bible.
I also remember someone telling me, "I don't believe Jesus had an advantage over me!" And I thought the same thing. An advantage? HE died for OUR sins? It was 100% sacrifice, not a competition. That made a strong impression on me against what this person was trying to argue. I saw the distortion of the gospel in his argument. And that was a long time before I knew what I believed.
I remember the realization finally hitting me that if I had been taught wrong about salvation, there was a very good chance that everything I had been taught was wrong.
I just read your blog. I am only one person, but being a sister in Christ, I believe you have done an incredible job posting the truth. The truth will always upset some people, many people. It always has and always will. Please do not change what you are doing and please do not live in false guilt over this one comment. You take the risk of being persecuted whenever you come forward and teach the truth of Christ.
Just wanted to say, hang in there, I love what you write from your heart.
I believe you are so correct about God being complete within himself, in fact I believe the plan that was before the foundation of the world has always been for God's glory. Man is a beneficiary of this glory, not the center of it. There are only 2 paths, God through faith in Jesus Christ the narrow way or the broad way which comes in a zillion choices of Man-centered activity, whether religions of all sorts including professing Christendom or secular humanism, paganism etc. etc. True Christianity is Christo-centric and not man-centered. I think you can see that it was all about HIS glory in vs. 23 of Romans 9 and the following vs.
Romans 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-
In Isaiah 48, we see that God's glory is for him alone and he will not give it to another (man).
Isaiah 48:9-11 For my name’s sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off. Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.
Isaiah 43:6-7 Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth, every one who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory.
Romans 11:36 says, “For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.”
John 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world
Acts 17:24-25 "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands; nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all {people} life and breath and all things;
The following is from DH Kuiper on God and his need of nothing outside of himself:
“God is so independent and without need of any thing outside of Himself that nothing can ever add any thing to God. Creation does not add anything to God. Creation reveals the wonderful glory of God, but it does not add to it. He is independent in glory; in Himself He is all-glorious. The salvation of the Church as a whole, and each member of the Church in particular, does not add to God's great glory! Oh, salvation reveals the wonders of His grace and glory, but salvation cannot increase it! From eternity to eternity God has all glory! Still more, the Lord Jesus Christ in His incarnation, ministry, death, resurrection and ascension, did not add any thing to God either! All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ bodily! That Christ revealed the glory of God to us is wonderfully and forever true! But in so doing He did not add anything to God. How could He? God is unchangeable. Before creation He is the God of all glory, as well as after creation, and He is that to all eternity, of Himself! God is the God of life Who sustains all, but Who is Himself independent of all. He gives to all, but He is enriched by none. “ -- DH Kuiper
God bless,
Todd E.
The Subtlety of Error
I have had people approach me asking me to evaluate books for them, books that are filled with the most pernicious lies, books filled with statements absolutely antithetical to Christianity. I have had people hand me books by leading New Age authors and ask, "What do you think of this book?" Such people, though they may be genuine Christians, exhibit a shocking inability to discern truth from error. In fact, it seems that many of these people hardly believe that error is a force that should concern them. As often as not they seem to be interested in knowing whether a book is good as measured by some subjective standard of excitement or interest rather than whether the book is true and good by the objective standard of God's Word.
We cannot affirm the existence of truth without also affirming the existence of error. Where one exists, so will the other. Error will pervert our thoughts of God, filling our minds with ideas of God that are unworthy of him and not in accordance with what the Bible teaches about him. And when our thoughts of God are wrong, our actions will soon also be wrong. Just as J. I. Packer's test of truth will show if we are pursuing truth, it can show if we are pursuing error. When our eyes are taken off the cross, when the gospel becomes secondary, when we are made the center of our faith, we know that we are pursuing what is wrong.
Error is not always obvious and so we need to be aware of the subtlety of error. This was clearly a problem in the early church. "For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" (Jude 4). By increasing our discernment and by practicing discernment we can grow in our knowledge of the truth so that which is error becomes increasingly obvious. Even subtle error will apear with clarity. R.C.H. Lenski writes, "The worst forms of wickedness consist of perversions of the truth, of spiritual lies, although today many look upon these forms with indifference and regard them rather harmless."
Just a reminder that I have never deleted anyone else's comments. Sometimes someone deletes their own to correct wording or a typo. And I have had to delete a few spammers. But I would never delete someone for disagreeing with me or posting something I don't like unless they were WAY over the top and injurious to someone. But I won't protect myself from criticism by censoring comments.